Please find a somewhat different Understanding of the non-human inhabitants of this mostly non-human world, and human beings too, the author of which was born in New York in that fateful year of 1939 - New York was/is of course the "belly of the east"
A paradox: Steve says"The journey of faith is not so much a ladder to God, but a descent into participation-into the furnace of divine love." (and overlook Jacob's ladder-I live in the Bible-Belt)
My view is that I in stillness through the igniting the "spark-the divine image" in our soul(can) ascend
to our upper soul where God is waiting. It is the higher order of reality-beyond the process of time,
the awakening to our true "I". Once one reaches this level he/or she will "love" participation of
being in the furnace/fire(the lower soul of our physical selves-time/eternity is the upper soul-God).
The paradox: It is the same: your descent, my ascent ="s "Live in time and yet rooted in eternity."
You like John and Teresa(as I do); I like Eckhart and M. Porta (sp?)(she was burned alive 1310 for
her views!) and Eckhart faced the Inquisition over his views and might have burned, but he was
a Meister having taught in Paris twice, so he was able to appeal to the Pope.
Thanks Scott. Thank you for this thoughtful reflection. I appreciate the paradox you highlight—how the language of ascent and descent, when rightly understood, converge in the life of the soul rooted in God. And you are absolutely right to notice that both metaphors—climbing and surrendering—are held in tension by the great mystics.
Still, if I may nuance it slightly: the tradition, especially in figures like John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, ultimately stresses that even the soul’s “ascent” is not by its own ignition or effort, but through decreasing in self-reliance and deepening into God’s action. In this sense, the true ascent is a descent—into humility, into surrender, into divine love that lifts the soul beyond itself. It is God who draws us up, not we who climb to Him.
Eckhart hints at this too when he says the eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me. Our movement toward God is always, at its heart, God’s movement within us first.
So yes—ascend we do, but only by allowing ourselves to be descended into: hollowed, opened, surrendered to the fire. He must increase, and I must decrease. In this way, what seems ascent and what seems descent are indeed two faces of the same mystery: participation in the eternal life of God. I am grateful for your voice here, Scott.
Please find a somewhat different Understanding of the non-human inhabitants of this mostly non-human world, and human beings too, the author of which was born in New York in that fateful year of 1939 - New York was/is of course the "belly of the east"
http://fnmzoo.org/wisdom/teaching/a-contemplative-state-of-exaltation
http://fearnomore.vision/world-2/not-merely-that
This reference describes his Illuminated State at birth
http://www.kneeoflistening.com/chapter-one/6
Thanks Zippy, will check them out.
A paradox: Steve says"The journey of faith is not so much a ladder to God, but a descent into participation-into the furnace of divine love." (and overlook Jacob's ladder-I live in the Bible-Belt)
My view is that I in stillness through the igniting the "spark-the divine image" in our soul(can) ascend
to our upper soul where God is waiting. It is the higher order of reality-beyond the process of time,
the awakening to our true "I". Once one reaches this level he/or she will "love" participation of
being in the furnace/fire(the lower soul of our physical selves-time/eternity is the upper soul-God).
The paradox: It is the same: your descent, my ascent ="s "Live in time and yet rooted in eternity."
You like John and Teresa(as I do); I like Eckhart and M. Porta (sp?)(she was burned alive 1310 for
her views!) and Eckhart faced the Inquisition over his views and might have burned, but he was
a Meister having taught in Paris twice, so he was able to appeal to the Pope.
Thanks Scott. Thank you for this thoughtful reflection. I appreciate the paradox you highlight—how the language of ascent and descent, when rightly understood, converge in the life of the soul rooted in God. And you are absolutely right to notice that both metaphors—climbing and surrendering—are held in tension by the great mystics.
Still, if I may nuance it slightly: the tradition, especially in figures like John of the Cross and Teresa of Avila, ultimately stresses that even the soul’s “ascent” is not by its own ignition or effort, but through decreasing in self-reliance and deepening into God’s action. In this sense, the true ascent is a descent—into humility, into surrender, into divine love that lifts the soul beyond itself. It is God who draws us up, not we who climb to Him.
Eckhart hints at this too when he says the eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me. Our movement toward God is always, at its heart, God’s movement within us first.
So yes—ascend we do, but only by allowing ourselves to be descended into: hollowed, opened, surrendered to the fire. He must increase, and I must decrease. In this way, what seems ascent and what seems descent are indeed two faces of the same mystery: participation in the eternal life of God. I am grateful for your voice here, Scott.
"And therefore,when a man accommodates himself
barely to God, with love, he is un-formed,
then informed, and then transformed
in the divine uniformity
wherein he is one
with God."
p.s. I just ordered Rod Dreher's book